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I have two questions.. 7
 작성자: 송악산  2013-07-06 15:57
조회 : 5,214  
Sunim, 
Thank you for your Beobmoon on BTN.
I was very impressed with your talk.
And I`ve got some questions after watching it.  

I heard that overcoming(or going beyond) "dualistic thinking" is very important.
I understand, if there is no "I, my, me" , we can attain a certain state(?) with "no dualistic thinking".

But,,, in our world and history, I think,
if there was no protest like "We are right, They(You) are wrong. We should change this society with justice.",
there was not even any progress of our society.
Like as, white-black discrimination , Korean dictatorship,  a labor movement, etc.

So, it seems that  "dualistic thinking"  is inevitable to improve our society and... also to change personal life in suffering.
(also from individual aspect, for example,,,
 If I were a very poor man in slum of an asian or african country, it seems the same situation to improve personal life.
 I would concentrate "my" situation to save my family from suffering.

 In this condition, "I" am in pain, "they(the middle class)" would be my aim.
 It seems that  dualism is inevitable in our real life and society. 
 I and They(You). On individual and social.)

I feel some confused. That`s my 1st question.

And 2nd question is,,
Sunim said drinking alcohol is like polluting whole earth & universe.
(That means the problems with making and consuming alcohol and the drunken...?)
I`ve enjoyed drinking alcohol. 
I wonder the reason you said that.

Thank you for your teaching.

*************************************************************************



이원적 생각을 극복하거나 (아니면 초월하는것)이 매우 중요하다고 들었습니다.

, 내 것, 나를이 없으면, 우리는 이원적 생각이 없는 상태를 얻을 수 있다고 알고 있습니다.

하지만, 제 생각엔 우리가 옳고, 그들 (당신)은 틀리다. 정의로운 사회로 바꿔야한다등의

항거가 없었다면, 우리 사회는 역사적으로 진보하지 못하였을 것입니다.


백인과 흑인 인종차별, 한국 역사에서 독재 혹은 노동운동 등이 그 예가 되겠지요.,

이원적 생각은 사회를 발전시키고 고통받고 있는 개개인의 삶을 바꾸는데에 불가피한 것이라고 생각합니다.

(예를 들어, 개인적 삶에서도, 내가 어디 아시아 국가 혹은 아프리카 국가에서 빈민촌에 살고 있는 가난한 사람이라면, 이런 상황에서도 이원적 생각이 개입하겠지요.

그럴땐, 분명 나의삶에 집중하여, 내 가족이 고통 받는 것으로 부터 구하고자 할 것입니다.

내가 고통받고 있고, 중산층을 목표롤 살아나간다면, 현실과 사회에서,

이원적인 것은 어쩔수가 없는 것 같습니다.

좀 혼란스럽습니다. 그 것이 첫번째 질문입니다.

 

두 번째 질문입니다.

스님께서 술은 전 지구와 전 우주를 오염시키는 것과 같다고 하셨습니다.

(그 말씀은, 술을 만드는 것, 마시는 것, 술에 취하는 것까지 모두 다 해당하는 것인가요?)

저는 음주를 즐기는 편인데, 스님이 그 처럼 말씀하신 이유가 궁금합니다.

 




 

의견 4
ChongAnSN
Song Buljanim,

Thank you for your keen-eyed questions. If you continue practicing with acute and aware mind, you will certainly perceive more and more of the meaning and essence of our tradition's teaching.

As to your questions, please look at the larger picture in each case: Going beyond thinking does not mean we obliterate thinking. Going beyond feelings, good and bad does not mean we obliterate them either. 'Going beyond' means that we attain freedom from them. This enables the correct view, the posture and standpoint from which we can help all beings--including ourselves. This is why we encourage people to practice, thus starting with themselves.

What we perceive, attain and correct in our mind, we can do the same in the world. Wherever our karma controls us, in that area we are helpless in the world either. Practice takes you up the mountain, where you see all valleys as equal, hear all their voices equally and see their situation truly for what they are.

If we proceed on the Way, we can help so that people wake up and do not reproduce the illness while applying the medicine. So far, all the issues you mention have not found their complete solution. Some of them are dormant, some of them smouldering, some of them are being rekindled as we speak. Why? We have been applying solutions that mutate and reproduce the problems in a different form.

So, we do not discourage people from struggle or making effort to improve their lives. We simply offer them a way to do it correctly. This will give more lasting results and less unwanted aftermath.

Drinking at the usual and socially acceptable level was never deemed outrageous, though in the long run that too dulls the senses with most people and harms the finest qualities of the mind. What 'pollution' means in this case is the deliberate action to cloud your consciousness. Not just by alcohol--by any substance or cognitive content like watching too much TV, playing games endlessly or being hung on the internet for countless hours.

These are all attempts to buy our happiness at a very high price. Our sincere efforts to solve our problems, help other beings and this world will result in meaningful and sustained relationships, situations and function. Happiness is naturally included in this process. But it cannot be substantiated or attained by any kind of attachment to anything that comes through the senses, booze included.

I hope this answers your questions--feel free to write back if you have any follow-up thoughts.

Sincerely in the Dharma,

Chong An
habjang

****************************************************************************************************

예리하고 깨어있는 마음으로 수행을 하신다면,
당신은 우리 전통 (불교 전통? 참선 전통?)이 주는 의미와 정수를 점점 인지할 수 있을 것입니다.
 
당신의 질문에 제가 답을 드리자면, 큰 그림을 보시라고 말씀드리겠습니다:
생각을 초월한다는 것은 생각을 없앤다는 것을 의미하지는 않습니다.

좋고 싫고 하는 감정을 초월한다는 것 또한,
좋고 싫고 하는 것을 없앤다는 것을 의미하지는 않습니다.

‘초월한다’는 것은 생각과 감정으로부터 자유를 얻는다는 것입니다.
초월하게 되면, 우리의 식견, 자세, 또 입장이 정확하게 되어
모든 이를 도울 수가 있게 되는 것입니다. – 우리 자신을 포함해서 말입니다.

이런 이유로 우리는 사람들이 수행할 수 있도록 격려하는 것입니다.
우리 자신부터 수행하는 것이 출발점이 되어서 말입니다. 

우리가 우리 마음속에서 인지하고, 깨닫고, 개선하는 것을,
우리는 이 세상에서 똑같이 할 수 있습니다.

우리가 우리의 업에 의해 조정당하고 속박된다면,
나를 벗어난 이 세상에서도 그것은 마찬가지 일것입니다.

수행은 당신을 산 정상으로 인도할 것입니다.
산 정상에서는 모든 계곡을 동등하게 볼 수 있고, 모든 소리를 동등하게 들을 수 있고,
모든 상황을 진정으로 있는 그대로 동등하게 볼 수 있습니다. 

우리가 대도 (大道, the Way)를 따른다면,
우리는 다른사람들이 악을 재생산하는 것을 막도록 도울 수 있습니다.

당신이 언급하신 모든 문제들은 그에 해당하는 해결점을 완전히 찾지 못했습니다.

어떤 문제들은 겉으로 들어나지 않았고, 어떤 문제들은 한창 불타고 있으며,
또 어떤 문제들은 지금 이시간에도 다시 불을 짚히려 하고 있습니다.

왜냐하면, 우리가 문제를 해결하고자 지금까지 사용한 해결 방법들이라는 것은
그 문제들을 다른 형태로 돌연변이시키고 재생산하는 것이었기 때문입니다.

우리는 사람들이 자신의 인생을 더 낫게 하려고 투쟁하고 노력하는 것을 막는 것은 아닙니다.
단지 올바르게 인생을 발전시키는 방법을 보여주는 것입니다.
이렇게 하면, 결실이 더 오래 지속될 것이고, 이렇게 하면 원치않는 여파가 생기지 않을 것입니다.

사회적으로 허용되는 수준에서 술을 마시는 것은,
장기적으로 봤을땐 감각을 무디게 하고 마음의 좋은 점들을 해하는 것이긴 하지만,
절대로 지독하다고는 할 수 없습니다.

이 경우에 ‘오염’ 이라는 것은 의도적으로 당신의 의식을 흐리게 하는 것입니다.
단지 술 뿐만이 아니라, 약이라든지, TV를 너무 보는 것이라든지,
끊임없이 게임을 하는 것이라든지, 별 이유없이 오랜시간동안 인터넷을 하는 것이라든지요.

이런 행복을 사려고 하는 노력들은, 전부 비싼 댓가를 지불하게 되는 것입니다.

우리의 문제들을 해결하려는 진정한 노력, 남과 세상을 도우려는 진정한 노력은
의미있고 지속되는 관계, 상황들, 기능을 이끌어 낼 것입니다.

이런 과정을 통해서 행복은 자연스럽게 도출되는 것입니다.

하지만, 행복은, 감각을 자극하는 것들에 (술을 포함해서) 대한 그 어떤 종류의 집착으로는
오래 지속되지도, 얻어지지도 않습니다.
  13-07-08 19:48  답변
송악산
ㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡ
Sunim,
Thank you so much for your careful answer in detail.
I understand what you answer my question over my head.
Actually, however, it seems like attaining that 'mountain view' state is difficult for me in real life.
Maybe because my practice is very little...
and there are still lots of problem to solve in my mind.
I feel I need more practice. (I`m not a buddhist.)
I really appreciate Sunim's answer and I`ll ask again later.
고맙습니다.
ㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡㅡ
  13-07-14 22:14  답변
david
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  19-11-14 14:27  답변 삭제
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